Welcome to English 1010! Here is the link to the Milgram Experiment. What did you think of this experiment? Was it ethical? Was it interesting/surprising/scary? What questions came to mind as you were reading it?
In a comical sense, I saw it as one very crude April fool's joke. Each subject (teacher) was fighting an inner dilemma. Some shone through, standing up to not tolerating the experimenter's, while other's just went with it. Obedience in itself is somewhat of a social anxiety/pressure. I guess it all depends on the personality of each individual and what one would classify as "evil".
I didn't really see it as unethical in the sense that no one was actually physically hurt, mentally insane for a short period of time, but it wasn't pure medieval torture. If it were me and I caved into the full 450 volts, afterwards I would've been a bit beside myself, but wouldn't beat myself up with guilt especially finding out later on that none of it was real.
One question that did pop up, for me was what if you did this with children? During their development, all they want to do is please and receive praise, but at the same time, they wouldn't really understand what pain is when it's just someone else who's in pain right? However sometimes when one baby cries, the other one does starts for who knows what reason. So even from our child years, could we pick out the evils ones?
I believe that children would do it until they heard another child crying. My kids do it all the time, one is fine until they hear the other one. But it is very true that they just want to please and be rewarded. For their sake I hope children never have to be put in this situation.
It would be very interesting to see how children would respond--we train our children to be obedient from a very young age, yet they may be more empathetic or responsive to cries of pain. At the same time, children also are capable of being fairly cruel to each other. I'd like to discuss this in class a little on Monday--what kinds of variations on the experiment could be made to produce different outcomes?
I do not think that from childhood years we could "pick the evil ones out." Evil is learned, in my opinion, so it isn't something is innate. Roald Dahl would agree with me: "a child cannot spoil itself." (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the Veruca Salt song) Besides all of this, Milgram's experiment wasn't designed to measure people's inner values or morals. He explains himself that his experiments demonstrated human behavior under certain situational factors. (Writing and Reading Across the Curriculum, 702-703)
If the experiment where done on children I think you would get about the same response if not find that more would go to the end. Not that children are “Evil” as a matter of fact they’re more innocent not as self-reliant which causes them to be not as confident and sure of themselves and easier to persuade and in this case intimidate to do what you want. I also think that it’s really critical for anyone to go and say that someone is “Evil”. Just the connotation that that word has in our society is very harsh to tag with a person. I think there can be bad or evil actions but to say someone IS evil without knowing who they are and what’s going through their mind and their motivations behind certain actions isn’t fair to anyone. Along with the Nazi generals and soldiers, yes what happened was very wrong, but we don’t know what the consequences of not following orders would have brought like threatened lives of family members and loved ones. Milgram’s experiment showed us that however critical we are of “Evil Doers” in the comforts of our home and pleasant life, when placed in their shoes and their life most would do the same “Evil” things.
In response to how children would have done in the experiment I believe the results would be about just about the same. I think the results would be like this is because children would know that they are hurting someone else just like adults so most results would be just about the same.
I think that if this experiment would've been done with children the results would probably be about the same. Although I think it would be interesting to see if the results would vary if the experimenter was the parents of the child instead of a random person. Considering that at a very young age we are taught to obey our parents and push the limits of obediance when it comes to people we aren't familiar with as children.
If a child were to be used in this experiment, I think that the outcome would vary greatly depending on the child's age. As children grow, they experience a flux of hormones, which greatly alters their perception of any given situation. In my opinion, there are two general ways that a child would react in this experiment; the first child, at the sound of a shout of agony,not understanding what the person is going through, will think it is quite humorous, and continue the shocks for the comical value. The other child, upon hearing the shouts of pain, will grow concerned, and scared, and upon the urges of the experimenter to continue, will have an emotional break down, discontinuing the experiment. -Rachel Mize
That's a really scary question. As I was reading it, I was thinking to myself, "I would never do something like that!" It's so hard to say. It makes me think about how I would react to Jesus back when he was with the Jews. Would I be the one celebrating his crucifiction, or would I be someone trying to keep such an aweful thing from happening?
That is a really hard and scare question to answer. When I was watching the movies in class I thought that I would be able to easily stop. But once I think of it I don't know if I could but I hope I could be what you doing is just hurting someone.
A thought has been in my mind since we started reading about these "shocking experiments". It reminds me of an old movie (I think in the late 70's) with Bill Murrey-"Ghost Busters". This is not what the movie is about, but in first part of this movie he is the scientist in the lab coat and sets up the experiment to scam on college girls. Anyway, just a randam thought that I felt was funny and reminded me of an old movie I might have to find and watch again.
I love how I am responding to this in April instead of back in January! The experiment was very disturbing. Milgram could have worked on making it a little more ethical. It was probably one of those experiments that looked good on paper, but backfired when put into practice.
I'm glad that Whitby's syllabus got everyone to think on an ethical basis with our writing. I plan on taking an ethics class and I'll be able to remember the Milgram experiements as my "what if" scenarios. Also, the majority of how the class responded with current media/cultural background gave insight to keep an open mind and a closed mouth.
Great class Mrs. Whitby!Too bad you won't be teaching 2010 during the summer! Rebecca B.
Thanks, Rebecca :) I'm glad you got something out of the readings that you can carry on to other classes! That's one of my greatest hopes for 1010--that it will be valuable to you guys throughout the rest of your college career. Good luck!
In a comical sense, I saw it as one very crude April fool's joke. Each subject (teacher) was fighting an inner dilemma. Some shone through, standing up to not tolerating the experimenter's, while other's just went with it. Obedience in itself is somewhat of a social anxiety/pressure. I guess it all depends on the personality of each individual and what one would classify as "evil".
ReplyDeleteI didn't really see it as unethical in the sense that no one was actually physically hurt, mentally insane for a short period of time, but it wasn't pure medieval torture. If it were me and I caved into the full 450 volts, afterwards I would've been a bit beside myself, but wouldn't beat myself up with guilt especially finding out later on that none of it was real.
One question that did pop up, for me was what if you did this with children? During their development, all they want to do is please and receive praise, but at the same time, they wouldn't really understand what pain is when it's just someone else who's in pain right? However sometimes when one baby cries, the other one does starts for who knows what reason. So even from our child years, could we pick out the evils ones?
Rebecca Bergeson
I believe that children would do it until they heard another child crying. My kids do it all the time, one is fine until they hear the other one. But it is very true that they just want to please and be rewarded. For their sake I hope children never have to be put in this situation.
DeleteI, Amanda M., just posted that last post on Jan. 18, 2012 at 7:42 AM. In a reply to Rebecca B.
DeleteIt would be very interesting to see how children would respond--we train our children to be obedient from a very young age, yet they may be more empathetic or responsive to cries of pain. At the same time, children also are capable of being fairly cruel to each other. I'd like to discuss this in class a little on Monday--what kinds of variations on the experiment could be made to produce different outcomes?
ReplyDeleteI do not think that from childhood years we could "pick the evil ones out." Evil is learned, in my opinion, so it isn't something is innate. Roald Dahl would agree with me: "a child cannot spoil itself." (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the Veruca Salt song) Besides all of this, Milgram's experiment wasn't designed to measure people's inner values or morals. He explains himself that his experiments demonstrated human behavior under certain situational factors. (Writing and Reading Across the Curriculum, 702-703)
ReplyDeleteIf the experiment where done on children I think you would get about the same response if not find that more would go to the end. Not that children are “Evil” as a matter of fact they’re more innocent not as self-reliant which causes them to be not as confident and sure of themselves and easier to persuade and in this case intimidate to do what you want.
ReplyDeleteI also think that it’s really critical for anyone to go and say that someone is “Evil”. Just the connotation that that word has in our society is very harsh to tag with a person. I think there can be bad or evil actions but to say someone IS evil without knowing who they are and what’s going through their mind and their motivations behind certain actions isn’t fair to anyone. Along with the Nazi generals and soldiers, yes what happened was very wrong, but we don’t know what the consequences of not following orders would have brought like threatened lives of family members and loved ones. Milgram’s experiment showed us that however critical we are of “Evil Doers” in the comforts of our home and pleasant life, when placed in their shoes and their life most would do the same “Evil” things.
Dustin Durfee
In response to how children would have done in the experiment I believe the results would be about just about the same. I think the results would be like this is because children would know that they are hurting someone else just like adults so most results would be just about the same.
ReplyDeleteMarcus C.
I think that if this experiment would've been done with children the results would probably be about the same. Although I think it would be interesting to see if the results would vary if the experimenter was the parents of the child instead of a random person. Considering that at a very young age we are taught to obey our parents and push the limits of obediance when it comes to people we aren't familiar with as children.
ReplyDelete-Ashley Bench
If a child were to be used in this experiment, I think that the outcome would vary greatly depending on the child's age. As children grow, they experience a flux of hormones, which greatly alters their perception of any given situation. In my opinion, there are two general ways that a child would react in this experiment; the first child, at the sound of a shout of agony,not understanding what the person is going through, will think it is quite humorous, and continue the shocks for the comical value. The other child, upon hearing the shouts of pain, will grow concerned, and scared, and upon the urges of the experimenter to continue, will have an emotional break down, discontinuing the experiment.
ReplyDelete-Rachel Mize
I think that if I heard a child, women, or a grandparent scream or cry, that I would be able to use self control and stop myself.
DeleteChristian Farr
If you did not know about Milgram's experiment and you were asked to participate would you? Do you believe you would get to the 450 volt shock?
ReplyDeleteAmanda M
That's a really scary question. As I was reading it, I was thinking to myself, "I would never do something like that!" It's so hard to say. It makes me think about how I would react to Jesus back when he was with the Jews. Would I be the one celebrating his crucifiction, or would I be someone trying to keep such an aweful thing from happening?
DeleteThat is a really hard and scare question to answer. When I was watching the movies in class I thought that I would be able to easily stop. But once I think of it I don't know if I could but I hope I could be what you doing is just hurting someone.
DeleteChristian Farr
A thought has been in my mind since we started reading about these "shocking experiments". It reminds me of an old movie (I think in the late 70's) with Bill Murrey-"Ghost Busters". This is not what the movie is about, but in first part of this movie he is the scientist in the lab coat and sets up the experiment to scam on college girls. Anyway, just a randam thought that I felt was funny and reminded me of an old movie I might have to find and watch again.
ReplyDeleteBrad C.
I love how I am responding to this in April instead of back in January! The experiment was very disturbing. Milgram could have worked on making it a little more ethical. It was probably one of those experiments that looked good on paper, but backfired when put into practice.
ReplyDeleteIf this was a game show and the winning prize was $1,000,000 do you guys think you could go to the final 450 volt? Yes or No?
ReplyDeleteChristian Farr
If there was a tv screen showing you guys the other person and seeing them in pain. Do you think you would be able to stop sooner than later?
ReplyDeleteChristian Farr
I'm glad that Whitby's syllabus got everyone to think on an ethical basis with our writing. I plan on taking an ethics class and I'll be able to remember the Milgram experiements as my "what if" scenarios. Also, the majority of how the class responded with current media/cultural background gave insight to keep an open mind and a closed mouth.
ReplyDeleteGreat class Mrs. Whitby!Too bad you won't be teaching 2010 during the summer!
Rebecca B.
Thanks, Rebecca :) I'm glad you got something out of the readings that you can carry on to other classes! That's one of my greatest hopes for 1010--that it will be valuable to you guys throughout the rest of your college career. Good luck!
ReplyDelete